Ep 90- How Italians Think About Food Differently (and What We Can Learn From Them)

October 30, 2025

Have you ever wondered why the land of pasta, bread, and wine is filled with so many healthy, thin people?

I’m interviewing Isabella Drake, a half Italian/half American friend, who studied food production for 3 years in Italy and got her masters in food technology. Let’s learn what Italy gets right about eating and how we can eat more like Italians.

We cover…

• What’s different about how Italians think about food compared to Americans?

• Do Italians think about food MORE often throughout the day?

• How does intentionality around food shape their health and satisfaction?

• Do people in Italy ever talk about “mindful eating,” or is it just naturally built into how they eat?

• What surprises you about portion sizes, snacking habits, or how Italians respond to hunger and fullness?

• You’ve lived in both Italy and the U.S. — what emotional or psychological differences have you seen in how people talk about food, guilt, or body image?

• Why do you think Italians seem to experience less guilt or anxiety around food?

• How is wheat processed different in Italy? Why can gluten intolerant people eat bread in Italy?

• The specific government policies that help maintain the integrity of their food system

• Why obesity rates are still rising in Italy too

• The biggest things Italy gets right and wrong about eating

Amber: Before we dive into today's episode, I want to let you know that this is a three part series, so we have part one today, and then the next two parts are released two days apart from now.

This episode was truly life-changing and everyone is always so fascinated with the Italians and how they eat, how they stay so thin, eating bread, butter, carbs, wine. And so I wanted to make sure I broke it down into bite-sized pieces for you to listen to all the way through. So if you're not already following the podcast, make sure you hit follow so you don't miss the other two episodes.

Hello, confident eaters. We have such a fun interview today, and it is with one of my best friend's, sister Isabella. Isabella specialized in microbiology. She studied food production for three years in Italy. She herself is Italian. She has getting her master's in food technology right now. So she just has a lot of information on the food systems and all that is involved with that, especially in other countries.

Isabella, do you wanna say hi and introduce yourself a bit more?

Isabella: Hello everybody. it's so nice to be on this podcast. This is my first time ever doing a podcast, so I'm super excited. I grew up in the US with a mom from Italy and a dad from Indiana and so I was always a bit confused about the US food system and so I always wanted to get into nutrition and food science and that kind of led me to go abroad and, spend more time with my Italian family and just learn more about the European food system so that I can understand it moving back to the US and how those who are different, how they're similar and, what changes can I make and the way I eat between the two countries.

And yeah, I miss it every day, but hopefully I can go back pretty soon.

Amber: Yeah. And the reason I wanted her to come on today is because I think so many people are so fascinated with European food culture, just like other food cultures in general outside of the US because as of 2022, 42% of the US was obese compared to only 17% of Italy. And so we know that Italians have much more often been healthier and slimmer and just thought about food in a lot of different ways than we do in the us.

And I think people are also always so fascinated too, with. How they're able to eat pizza and pasta and like carbs all day long and bread that we sometimes demonize in the US it's oh, they're bad. You could never eat them. When really these are foods that have been around and cultures for, thousands and thousands of years.

So we're gonna explore today in our episode, how Italians think about food and quality and pleasure and just their eating and food systems overall. So we'll just get started right away with how do you think Italians think about food differently compared to Americans?

Isabella: so the Italian food system is so interesting and it's really fascinating to me because they work on a system of gourmet products. So if you ever heard of Parmesan cheese, it's considered a gourmet Italian product. if you have gorgonzola, if you eat gorgonzola cheese, or maybe salamis, like they have a lot of cured meats.

Also, the wine industry, these are. All gourmet products, they're all made in Italy with the raw agricultural ingredients coming from Italy, like the vineyards. even pasta production, all of the wheat is made in Italy. So it's a gourmet system centered in Italy, made by Italians, made by Italian tradition, Italian history.

and the way that I saw people think about food was that they weren't just eating a piece of cheese. They were eating all of the work done with that cheese, all of the science behind that cheese, all of the history tradition behind that cheese. So they have a food culture that is centered in history, centered in tradition.

And that's something I feel is lacking in the us. In the US we were built on a system of fast food, of high industrialized, high processed food. And that's based on the US' history, the US like, you know, being the center of industrialization. I'm not big on history, but way back when, that's just the way the US was made, how the culture was centered.

Were very like consumer society, very fast paced. Italy's completely different. So when I would eat foods there, it's more about the quality of your ingredients than what you're really eating. They focus on very simple ingredients. I mean, cheese. To make cheese you need milk and some acids to put in there to drop the pH.

So it's very simple food. What's different is it takes a lot of time to make, so cheeses are aged for months, years at a time. Wines, you can find wines that have been aged up to 10 years. It's a really long process, but it's about the quality and it's about understanding what you're eating, who made it.

it's essentially like a craftsmanship. The food is a way for Italians to display their craftsmanship. Just like Germans. Germans produce cars and different pieces of equipment and they're especially good at that. That's their craftsmanship. And for Italians, it's their food. So when they look at their food, they're so proud of it.

And that was something really nice to see. It's something that I kind of lack here in the us. When I eat a McDonald's burger, I'm not really proud of that. But if I go to Italy and I eat a piece of cheese that I know has taken months to make, that's something I'm gonna be pretty proud of.

I was trying to think about what the US equivalent would be of that, of what we're really proud of. But I think for the US what we're proud of is like our money and having

Isabella: cheap as possible. And I think that's where a lot of our food system has gone wrong in the US is just prioritizing the bottom line overall else. So something that I've been studying a lot the past few months that I have talked about a little bit on this podcast, but is gonna be more of a focus in my coaching

Amber: my practice moving forward, is all of the additives in our foods that have led to. In addition of flavoring into our food because our food tastes so bad. So in order to make our food taste better, because of how shittily it's produced in our we're adding in so many different flavors and things. So it will still taste the same, it doesn't have that same quality like they might have in another country that truly values the food.

Isabella: Yeah. And even from the point of let's say quality, the goal for profitability is to extend your shelf life. And if you're gonna extend shelf life, you know you're gonna lose a lot of like, flavor and sensory properties of the food. That's why they pump them with flavor so that they can maintain that.

But, that's not the real flavor of the product. That's just, an artificial ingredient. But it's all for the money. 'cause the longer you can have the product on the shelf, the more money you're gonna make.

Amber: So do you think that Italians think about food more often throughout the day?

Isabella: Not really. I think they have And here's where I get into the structure of the Italian meal. actually, it's really interesting the way that they structure their meals. and this is also a thing that has kind of developed throughout history. So if I can maybe put you in a scenario, let's say you're going to eat at your friend's home in Italy.

So you'll sit down and the first plate that you'll receive is called your primo pieto, which means the first plate. And the first plate is either going to be a pasta or a rice. So it's gonna be your carb. And so the pasta, rice dishes, they're made with different ingredients. Maybe some, a special meat sauce like a bolognese, or you'll have, a risotto with maybe some vegetables in it.

and it kind of changes. Throughout the season, what vegetables or ingredients you're gonna use? So you have, it's a carb, then you eat your carb, it's a decent portion. probably about a hundred grams of pasta is like the baseline that they use. and then you move on to your second plate.

And between first plate and second plate, you have about 15, 20 minutes to like digest. And, during that time you're talking, you're eating, you're either drinking water or you're drinking wine,you know, it's a social interaction. Then you get your second plate, which is called a nda. And that's gonna be your protein.

So you're either gonna have a meat or a fish, and that's always gonna be paired with a vegetable. and soyou're eating your second plate, you're probably drink water, wine, anything you're talking.after the second plate, you're gonna have something sweet. So it's gonna most likely be a piece of fruit.

So we'll always have whatever fruit is in season. my favorite season was apricot season. I loved eating apricots in Italy. after your fruit, there's usually gonna be a dessert. So you'll have a little slice of cake. usually something homemade After that, you're going to have, espresso, gonna have a little coffee after your coffee.

They usually have a small, shot of lur as they call the TiVo to digest. So you take your shot of lur and then you're done. So this is around a six. Seven course meal. it usually takes around three to four hours to complete if you're, at a friend's house or at a restaurant or at a social gathering.

 And so it's, it sounds like a really big meal. And it is, and this isn't something that you do. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. This is mainly going to be your lunch. So it's a really heavy lunch, first, second plate, fruit, dessert, shot coffee, all that stuff. That's usually once a day you're gonna have that.

Or in some cases, a really special occasion, you go out to dinner and you have that. But that's your basic structure. So if anyone goes to Italy and they look at the menu, the first page on the menu is gonna be your primi, which is your carbs, and then your SE diet, which is your proteins. And you can choose if you want one or the other.

and so if you have this big meal for lunch, usually at dinner, it's gonna be really light, maybe some tomatoes, some cheese, Maybe some fruit, something like that. 'cause it is a really heavy meal, but you have a lot going on. You have carbs, proteins, vegetables, fruits, desserts. you have, it's a really complete meal.

And so it was so ingrained in society that when I was in college and I went into my dorm, my dining hall, at my dorms, that was like the structure of our dining hall. So every day I was eating this structure of food. So I had my tray with all these different plates on it, and you eat it in that order.

or the Italians, they're very particular about this. And so they get upset if you do things, the wrong way. And then, I didn't mention breakfast, but breakfast is usually very small. Italians eat a sweet breakfast, so it's gonna be like a pastry from your local bakery. I would always go and get a croissant and a cappuccino.

It's really quick, maybe takes 15, 20 minutes to complete. And that's usually, depends, probably around nine. And then Italians usually have lunch from, let's say like noon to 2:00 PM and then they have dinner from Seven to nine. So this whole big meal that they do, with all these courses,it depends on the family, depends on what's going on.

But that's always gonna be the basics. And they usually, the beverage, they usually either have water or wine. They're very particular on not drinking like cocktails or juices while you're eating this meal. Like juice is usually for a snack. You have juice for a snack and then cocktails are for like, if you're going out with friends.

But Italians, they get mad at tourists when tourists come to restaurants and they want to have a cocktail with their meal. And they're like, their brain is itching. They're like, no, you're not supposed to do this. They have very specific like mealtime rules and sometimes I had to learn that the hard way I'd get yelled at in restaurants for doing something the wrong way.

'cause it's very like precise. And I think this has just evolved over the years to be their structure of their mealtime.

Amber: Which is really interesting because when I first know that like me and a lot of people hear this and are like, wow, that sounds like the dream day of eating. Like, that So good. yet the reason I want to ask if, you feel like they think about food more is because a lot of people. That I work with are struggling with food noise, which is they feel like they're thinking about food all day. And what I'm hearing here is like Italians actually have a lot of rules around food. Like they're very strict and structured. And a lot of times when people imagine food freedom, it's like there's no rules, there's no structure.

I just eat whatever all times of the day. And it's if you look at a culture that does really value their health, their food, just that eating experience, it's like actually very rigid and structured to a degree. But why do you think that is? Like that they've kept that ridge of structure versus just let it fly to the winds like we have in the US and snack, seven times a day.

Isabella: Yeah. In my opinion, it's about preserving the quality of the food. So they have this very specific rule about fish and cheese. So if you get your second plate and you get like a piece of fish, or if you get, this happened to me, I got a plate of pasta. It was lobster ravioli, and usually on pasta you sprinkle some cheese.

It's pretty normal. They have this rule, absolutely no cheese and fish. They cannot mix. And I was like. This is stupid. I got yelled at a restaurant for asking for cheese with my lobster ravioli. And I was like, Why is this such a big deal? And I looked into it. And cheese, essentially cheese masks the flavor of the fish.

So there is some reasoning behind these little weird particularities that they have. Also, I think it's that way with the beverages as well. I think, when you're eating a meal, they don't want you to have this like really strong, potent juice or cocktail to mask the flavor of what you're eating.

So it's only going to be water or wine. That's like the only thing you can have when you're eating at a restaurant. again, they have a lot of pride in their food and like. You know, an old Italian man that has spent his entire life making Parmesan cheese and someone's coming and not eating it the right way, you're going to get upset.

This is your life's work. This is an extremely gourmet product,founded on tradition. so it's about also protecting the food. there's a lot of copycats, especially in the us like copycat brands that are trying to recreate Parmesan or recreate salamis and things like that. and it's hurting the Italian industry and so I can get into it later, but there's also a set of laws that are, protecting, local Italian farmers.

So in my opinion, the structure is meant to protect and preserve the food. and I also didn't mention to you, but there is a designated snack time in Italian mealtime, and it's between Five and six in the afternoon. That's usually also happy hour time. Happy hour is huge. After work, people go have a Aperol spritz or something.

And then, with that they get a little plate of let's say like little appetizers that they can snack on. Or if you're at home, typical snack is usually gonna be some tea and maybe some crackers or some fruit or something. but there isn't this concept of I eat whenever I want. It's very structured and it's also, it's a big social thing.

You are most likely eating with friends or family. Rarely you're eating alone. A lot of people who live alone, they go out to restaurants to eat. And then this mealtime that I told you about, they call it minuto. And you can get an entire meal, first, second plate and everything for. 12 to 15 euro, which is a lot of food for, such a little amount of money.

And there you're also surrounded by people. So mealtime is very social, it's very structured. And the restaurants also, they close from two 30 to six 30, so you can't even go, if you wanted to go eat dinner at 5:00 PM you can't, 'cause they're closed. They'll only be open if they cater to tourists.

And that's it.

Amber: So how do you think this intentionality around food has shaped Italians health and satisfaction around it?

Isabella: they are eating really good food. and it's also very high quality. and like I said, in one of the meal times, they're gonna be eating fruit after every single meal, which is something, it became such a big habit for me that I do that now. Every time I eat lunch or dinner, I'm always eating a piece of fruit.

 like intentionality, like the way that they're so structured and so rigid about the food and how that shapes their health, essentially.

Amber: Yeah, and I have a thought about it too.

Isabella: just trying to think of where you left off and if I could just interject this, but I'll just

Yeah.

Amber: else comes around up around it,

But one thing that I think about with the satisfaction around it is a lot of people think that the more I like food, the more I'm going to eat it. And then the more obese I'll be and the more overweight I'll be and the more I'll overeat. I find the opposite in my work where when people are enjoying their food, they leave satisfied and then they don't wanna go back for more and more. I think the quality of it too also is reflecting the high level of nutrition that it has, which is why, if you were to taste a gross grocery store tomato in the US, it tastes gross because it doesn't have as high of a level of nutrition as something that a really good tasting tomato does. So our tastes and our flavor. in our mouth, they help guide us to what is the most nutritious thing, like a fresh rip fruit. again, has more nutrition than a bitter raw fruit that just isn't ripe yet. of times when these foods are tasting better naturally because they're higher quality, that's leading to more satisfaction.

But also people are getting more nutrients from that food they are actually feeling like this deep level of satisfaction because when our body isn't getting enough nutrients and quality food, then it does wanna go back to more. And going back to again, a lot of the flavorings and additives and the US food system is, if we are not aware of what's going into them, we might be eating less nutritious food than our taste buds are telling us.

oh this tastes really good, but it's really, 'cause it has all the additives in it. Not because it's a highly nutritious pasta sauce with the best tomatoes. It was just flavored that way.

Isabella: Yeah. It's funny when you like leave these big Italian meals, you do not want to eat food for the next 10 hours because you are insanely full. like the food that I have been eating at these meals, it is so good, but I'm also eating it so slow. 'cause you're like, eat a couple bites, you drink some wine, you drink some water, you're talking, like, it's almost like a ritual.

And this ritual takes four hours. Like sometimes my sister and I would have to beg our mother to leave because it was taking so long. it's essentially a ritual and it's so slow in, you are eating so much food. It's also interesting 'cause to arrive to these events, you have to like.

I don't know, walk two miles, bike a couple miles. So you're also exercising to arrive to these events. people know in Italy there's a lot more walking, there's a lot more biking. People rely less on cars. and so you leave these meals and a lot of people after the meal will take a nap because they're so full and it keeps you full for so long.

And you don't go back craving more. You don't wake up after your nap even more hungry. The only thing you want to eat after these meals is maybe a piece of fruit because you just eaten an insane amount of food. But it's all, it's so dense, it's so nutrient dense. And like I said before, Italians rely on the quality of their ingredients.

Italian food in of itself is really simple food. I can think of maybe like Asian food that has a lot of spices, a lot of flavor. Italians don't rely on flavor of spices. They rely on the flavor of their natural ingredients. Like you mentioned a tomato. I would eat tomatoes in Italy.

I just eat a plain tomato and it was so good. I do that here. It's gross. I don't like it. so it's more about the quality of the raw ingredients than using any spices, additives, flavoring. So to answer your question, you don't really,finish these meals and, wanna go back for more.

There's also so much variety in the food you can eat that people don't wanna just go back and eat the same thing. They wanna try new restaurants, travel, go to new regions in Italy and try different gourmet foods.

Amber: Yeah, I lived in Copenhagen both when and I lived there for three months. And that was a big thing in Danish food too. should do like a whole episode on that because Danish food is historically even more bland. Like it is just like very unflavored unseasoned. They don't really even like salt their food that much.

like I need more to this. because they're so used to heavily flavored spiced foods from other parts of the world that when they go to Denmark, it's kinda like, it feels a little bland at first, but that's because they really value the food quality. So it's

they value is becoming because they make it in a really beautiful way that has produced a food with higher nutrition and flavor that they don't need to make up with that in other ways.

Isabella: Yep. And that's why a lot of American tourists will come to Italy and say they don't like the food because they're not feeling this flavor. Also, when I first moved to Italy, I was putting a bunch of salt on all my foods because for me it wasn't salty enough and my friends were like. What are you doing?

Why are you putting salt on everything? And I was just used to such a high sodium content here in the US and like my legs started getting really swollen and then eventually over time I got used to the Italian salt content. So that's also telling me our food here is probably way over salted than it needs to be.

Amber: Yeah. Yeah, And our taste buds do change to that. It change to adjust to what it expects is gonna give us nutrition. So if it thinks it needs this high level flavor in order to get nutrition. That's what's gonna expect. And I think about things like flavor blasted goldfish where we used to normal goldfish, but then the American palate got so used to that normal goldfish is like bland now. So now we have to have flavor blasted things that are, so intensely flavored. So then when we do have something that is naturally nutritious that doesn't have these added flavorings, of course we might think, oh, it doesn't taste as good at first, but our taste buds do adjust over time as it realizes that this food does actually provide nutrition and value to us without having to have all that extra flavoring that we have here.

Isabella: And it's just disappointing that we're getting blasted with these flavors. And then when we travel,we don't feel like the culinary art of where we're going. which I also think is why I think Americans really like and appreciate a lot of Asian food because it's so heavy on the spices.

But people in the US, when they think of Italian food, they think of Olive Garden. And Olive Garden is not Italian food at all. I mean, a lot of what we think is Italian food, like. Fettuccine Alfredo and chicken Parmesan, none of that is Italian. And so I could go on a whole nother podcast about how, American Italian food is nothing like what you'd find in Italy.

So when we were talking about your longer lunch experiences, I remember I talked to, a French friend once who I told him that. Sometimes Americans sit at their desk during lunch and like they just eat through their lunch. And he looked at me like I had 10 eyeballs coming out of me. And it was like, what do you mean Americans eat through lunch? Like, that's crazy. He just thought it was the most insane thing he's ever heard. And I was telling him about how, yeah, like a lot of times when I coach people, I work with them on giving them an intentional lunch break so they can actually enjoy the food and get pleasure out of it and not feel like they haven't eaten anything all day long because they were so mindless during all of their eating experiences.

I know that you went home for, summer camp for lunch. I remember you guys talking about how you guys would walk home and then you didn't wanna go back to summer camp after because you had just had lunch and you had to come home for it. So tell us more about what that experience was like and what you think that says about the priorities in Italy.

Yeah. So again, like I keep saying. The meal is like a ritual. It's a ritual to be with your friends, to be with your family, and to enjoy, the good food that Italians, produce from tradition and history and everything. So my sister and I, we'd go to summer camp and we'd have a two hour break from noon to two, and we'd either walk or bike home.

and our grandmother, she would cook us lunch and she would do it in the exact structure I told you. So we'd have a first plate, which was our carb, and then we'd have a second, which was our protein. We'd have fruit, coffee,and then this meal, it was my sister and I, and then my mom was there.

My grandmother and my uncle would join us. Most of the time. My aunt would join us sometimes. And so it was just kind of this big family gathering and, you're not. Working, you're not on your phone, you're not watching tv, you're just talking with your family. Even if you're not talking, that's okay.

You're just enjoying each other's presence. after that, it'd take about an hour maybe to eat and then after it was strictly nap time. It's the best thing ever. Getting to nap after eating so much food. And for my sister and I, it wasn't such a big deal 'cause we were younger. But my uncle, he works as a contractor, so he works with his hands.

He does a lot of manual work for him, it was a really important time to rest before he had to go back to work for the rest of the day. Then when I went to college, I had the same thing. I had a two hour lunch break. So I'd eat lunch in my dining hall, and then I would take a little nap most of the time, like a 30 minute nap, and then I'd have to go back to class for another four or five hours.

but I just feel like kind of refreshed. So It's having a break throughout your day. It breaks up your morning, and your afternoon. It was really nice to have that break throughout the working day. I also did an internship in Italy and I worked at like a, just an office building.

I did an internship in sustainability. and we didn't have nap time unfortunately in the office. It would've been really nice to have that. But we would go on these really like two hour lunches. we'd go out to restaurants. Just, for me it was about getting to know my coworkers. We would drink wine and for me that was.

Kind of crazy drinking wine, while you're at work, but it seemed totally normal. You know, you're not overdoing it. I would usually have a glass or two and then you have a coffee and you know you're good to go for the rest of the day. But, mealtime in Italy is so important.

People would never do it at their desk. They never do it while they're working. It's about taking time for yourself. People in Italy, they like working, but they don't wanna work all the time. They want breaks. they take an insane amount of coffee breaks, they love their espresso. so it's also about taking time for yourself to feed yourself.

And even now that I'm working in the US I do the same thing when I wanna eat my lunch. Most of the time I do eat it alone because my coworkers are also, they're busy, they're doing their own things. They don't really have this culture of eating together. But I'll get away from my desk and just eat my food.

in another area. So I'm not seeing the screens. I'm not working, I'm not tempted to work. So I like, it's like taking a break for myself, to reset before I have the rest of the afternoon to work. And I wish we did more of that here. 'cause, you know, eating and food is so important.

That's how you're nourishing your body. But I think a lot of Americans don't see food as a way to nourish your body. They see it as just a way to suppress the hunger cravings. I've never been one to eat fast food. I really don't understand it. But I look at my coworkers and some people I know here and they love it.

And I'm just like, but that's not doing anything for you. Food is supposed to like, nourish your body. and it's just, it's not doing anything. That's also why I got so interested in the food industry was because of the fast food culture here in the us. So I really wish we did more of that here, and it would just give people a break to focus on themselves, focus on nourishing their body instead of, you know, shoving down a bunch of food and 15 minutes and getting back to work.

Amber: I love that you said that because I do think people think that way, as you mentioned, of it's like a burden to have to take a lunch break, that it's something that's like taking away from their productivity and their day. And if they could just push through and just get a couple, bites is something in like everything would be so much better. But I like to remind people too. Our brain is not meant to like sit down at a desk and work for eight hours straight. Like you tell me truthfully that you are sitting there working for eight hours straight productively. We need breaks as humans. We're not robots. And that's how I view my lunchtime too, is, you know, I'm lucky and fortunate that I work for myself and so I can take usually as long of a lunch as I want.

It's an hour where I, make my lunch and go for a walk sometimes a little bit longer, but. I value that time because it does help me reset for the rest of the day. And I know if I were to just try to keep working, I would definitely get less done throughout the day. So I think when we start to value our mind and our body and like the value that food has for us during that and just like taking a break, it really does make us more productive, not less.

And there's in Europe too around work, and this is another whole conversation around productivity and how, they've had like four day work weeks or six hour work days, and there hasn't been a decrease in productivity because people can't work that long anyways. So I

Isabella: reminder that we can take that time and space for us and to sit and nourish our body with the food.

Absolutely. And even after the workday in Italy, people are walking straight to happy hour. So they're going and it's called the PET TiVo. They're going to have a drink, they're going to have a little snack, they're going to hang out with friends, and then after Pet TiVo, they may go to the gym or go on a walk or, and then they may go and cook dinner.

The Italian schedule is also, shifted a bit later than the American schedule, like here, people. Tend to wake up early and go to bed early. In Italy, it's the opposite. They wake up late and go to bed late. I would see, friends, it was really normal for them to go to sleep at midnight or one, and then they'd wake up later at nine or 10, and sometimes the workday doesn't even start until 10.

So it's also just more of a later schedule, a lap schedule. the Italian culture is just very set on enjoying your life and like people work to make a living, but working is not their life. And so they have no shame in taking two, three hour lunch breaks. They have no shame in drinking on their lunch breaks.

because it's about enjoying your life, enjoying the company of the people you're around. and then they go back and maybe do a little bit of work, but it's all just kind of, it's just very aloof and it's just about they just wanna enjoy their life And

They don't live to work or work to live. I can't remember,which one it is, but the Americans are one and the Europeans are the other.

Amber: Yeah, like our whole life is just, the purpose of it is to work, but not to just get money so that way we can live our life.

Isabella: So I think we've touched on this a little bit, but. do Italians respond to their hunger and fullness? if they're hungry, do they snack? Do they wait? I know you talked about there's one meal a day where they're definitely more full for, what is that like?

so usually if they are hungry, they can have a snack. it can speak from experience like my snack growing up, with my grandmother would maybe be like some cheese. cheese has a decent amount of protein, so that fill me up a bit. Maybe some crackers. a big snack for Italians is usually just a piece of fruit,you know, banana apples, whatever's going on in season.

but like I said, there isn't this, trend of eating outside the structured times. Like if you wanted to have lunch at 11, there's no restaurant that would be open, no dining hall or anything. and so people essentially just kind of wait. You know, the other thing that I wanted to mention is that Italians smoke a lot of cigarettes and nicotine, We know nicotine is an appetite suppressant. So if they're hungry, they may just go smoke a cigarette. you know, this is a hundred percent. One of the downsides of Italian culture is they'll usually drink if they're hungry in the morning, maybe they'll just go outside and smoke a cigarette and that may curb their hunger until lunch.

And even after lunch they'll smoke a cigarette. You know, a big culture is cigarette and coffee. they go hand in hand. This is something that I did not like, 'cause I hate the smell of tobacco. And so, you know, during lunch or after lunch, I go outside and you just get whiff of this huge tobacco and it was just.

Discussing. And even in the workday, people usually take a couple of cigarette breaks, a day. And so that's one thing that I would say is really unfortunate about it, but in a sense of responding to their hunger cues, it's more about following this structure. And then usually lunch, it's gonna be your biggest meal of the day, which will keep you full until maybe you have a snack around five or six.

You go out for a happy hour and then you'll have dinner around eight or nine.

Did you notice any differences in how Italians think about their body image or talk about their body and how that relates to, any guilt or anxiety around food? Like is that a thing there where they're, thinking about their body in that ways, and then do they take that out on food?

Isabella: Let me think about this a minute. So this is what I experienced being in the north of Italy. I think the north and south of Italy are very different. but so I can only give my perspective from the North, since the North has such a big fashion culture, you have, Dolce Gaana.

Prada, Gucci. there is this big skinny culture of being like they would call it like a stick, like being thick, thin. and so there is a lot of pressure on women, especially to fit this model, physique. And so I would see a lot of women, especially some, friends of mine in university, trying to eat kind of like keto where they wouldn't eat pasta.

So the first thing that Italian women would cut out when they wanted to lose weight was immediately going to be your pasta, and your breads. I didn't see this trend a lot in men. I mean. The guys would always just eat whatever they want. But I'd see the immense pressure on the women to fit this, this standard.

Italy as a country is also fat phobic, in a way which is really upsetting and is again, another one of their downsides. So if people think you're overweight, they're going to tell you. they're very blunt about it as well. My sister and I have both experienced this. A lot of our family members have experienced this, so they're gonna be very blunt about you if they think you're overweight.

me, for example, I look at my weight and my height and I'm completely normal, but in an Italian standard, I am fat because I don't look like a skinny model who isn't eating properly. So I good stuff about their culture around food, and there's also some bad stuff, and this is why I think the cigarettes is it's like aesthetic and it's so appealing is because it suppresses your hunger, especially for women.

And so that's, it was really disheartening, to see, and I experienced it. People, I heard people calling me chubby, and I was like, I need to feed my body. if I don't eat like this, I'm gonna be hungry all the time. it's a different culture. I think here in the US we're extremely accepting of different body types and I completely agree with that.

I think, we should accept of people look one way or the other, it doesn't really matter. But in Italy they tend to be a bit more critical and a bit more judgmental, which was pretty disheartening to see sometimes.

Amber: Yeah, I find that really interesting. I wouldn't have expected you to say that, but

I think it makes sense when you said, especially in the northern parts where there's a big, emphasis on fashion. And a lot of times that does create a lot of body pressure and I think it's a good reminder that no matter where you are in the world, we're not escaping, this like diet culture, this thin centric ideal anytime soon. And it is also interesting that you think that the US is more, accepting of bodies and I think that's a great. Testament to what the body positivity movement has done in the US and how that has really taken hold more. so yeah, I just find that very fascinating. And for all my listeners, it's like anyone who is going through dieting, they decide to, let's cut out carbs, let's cut out this and this. Those can be important food groups that your body still needs and that do have nutrition to it. Yes, they're higher in carbs, but that doesn't mean they don't have anything to offer your body. And so even Italian culture is not immune to eating disorder and binge eating. If they are in this place where there are restricting and their body's not getting enough vital nutrition, that makes someone so much more susceptible to overeating and binge eating and could be one of the contributors to something that's led to more Italians gaining weight is going into this diet cycle of, okay, we're cutting out foods, we're eating, too little and now we're going all out and we're eating more. But that they have this higher value on the food itself that, hopefully people at least have a second thought of it first of, is this really what I wanna be doing of cutting out this food, cutting out something that is so nourishing for my body?

Isabella: Absolutely. And even when they are dieting,and, maybe cutting carbs, you know, pasta and breads, they're still eating other Italian foods that are also really good. they're eating a lot of cured meats. They're eating a lot of,fresh salad, maybe fresh cheeses, so they're not,like eating less nutrients.

They're just, eating different food groups. But there unfortunately is this obsession or this culture to be skinny, to be a stick. people don't like curvy women, for example. They want them. You know, like sticks like this. And so I saw a lot of women who just do not have that body shape.

'cause some women have that shape naturally and others just have maybe a more curvy physique and they're striving to reach this goal that they can never reach because their body isn't made to be that way. And a lot of it is, this fashion media, especially in Milan portraying these models who are tall, skinny,it is just a physique that sometimes is just not attainable for a certain person with a certain body type.

Amber: Absolutely right. So let's talk a little bit more about the food quality and kind of the systems behind it in Italy.thing I'm really curious about is there pastas and breads and flowers. Because a lot of people who are gluten intolerant will go to Italy or somewhere in Europe and say, wow, like I could finally eat gluten and pasta and bread.

And we know that has a lot to how they make it and the ingredients. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

Isabella: Yeah. So the pasta is made with,guano duro, which means hard wheat versus a lot of the pastas and breads that we eat in the US are made with soft wheat, which is just your normal wheat. So the guano duro has a bit more of like a yellow, like a darker color. It's also extremely rich in nutrients, and it's also rich in.

Protein. and so Italy to make pasta, they use a slower technique which uses low temperatures, but a high drying time versus in the US they use high temperatures and a very quick drying time. like I said, the Italian food system is very slow. So to make the pasta, it takes a long time also to make the bread.

They rely more on yeast. As a leavening agent versus us, you rely a lot on chemical leavening agents like baking soda, for example. So the process is just going to take a really long time, which is also going to create a higher quality product. I studied the formation of gluten and all that stuff in my baking science class.

I don't remember all of the science behind it. But I think this attention to detail and this attention to this slow curated process is what's allowing Americans to eat these products. again, the US is such an industrialized food society that of course they're going to want high temperatures, quick time, versus the Italians use low temperatures and long time, and that's why the quality is much better.

And I'd recommend to anybody buying pasta. There are imported pastas that you can buy at the grocery store. That's what I buy. I try and buy, all imported Italian pasta, just to have that higher quality.

Amber: do you know if in Italy they enrich their flowers or have like different regulations around it?

Isabella: It's not mandatory to enrich flowers. it's optional. Like you can if you want to. It's not mandatory by law. Most people do not enrich the flowers because they're using the Guano Doro, which is the Hard Durham wheat. It's already has enough vitamins and minerals. They already has the high protein content.

They don't see this like need to enrich or fortify their flowers versus the us. I can't remember the history of why they did that, but, it's mandatory by law to enrich all of our flowers, which it may help in certain things, but it's also, as a citizen, you may not want to eat a fortified flower.

I don't want to eat fortified flowers. I didn't in Italy. Fine. and so I don't appreciate how the US has made this a mandatory law. They should have made it, you know, sunflowers fortified, some not. But in the European Union, it's not mandatory, it's optional, but people just don't see a need to do it.

They don't have the desire to do it, so most of your flowers are not gonna be fortified. That may also be another reason why, gluten, intolerant Americans are going to Italy and being able to eat all these breads and pastas. That may be the reason. I'm not exactly sure.

Amber: That's a really interesting theory and I think you could potentially be right about it. I think there's a lot of other additives that, like you think about our traditional bread that we buy from the supermarket, like that is not

Isabella: true like bread when you think of all the things that are added to it. I actually do know a little bit about the history of,the enrichment. And just to back up for a second, what enrichment is basically adding in vitamins or minerals into a product. So we can have like enriched bread, enriched rice, which is just adding in isolated molecules of these vitamins back into them because maybe they don't have them, naturally or because they were so depleted in it because our soils are not rich anymore. So there was a big,deficiency in B vitamins throughout both the US and in Italy around the same time. And. They handled it differently, right? So you notice

Mm-hmm.

Amber: Italy they don't have really enriched products, but in the US they did. So the US decided to make this big mandate of, okay, some people in the south are having this deficiency.

Let's just add it in these B vitamins into everything. Instead of looking at like the root cause of, well why are people not getting enough of these vitamins? Like where are they missing different foods? What different food sources do they not have access to that we could help them get? And I think that's more of the Italian approach because think it was an Italian person or it was someone who at least brought this information to Italy who realized that if, this disease that people were dying of because they didn't have enough of a certain B vitamin that peas had niacin, which is one of the things that. are enriched with is niacin. And if people just ate peas, then they were no longer dying of this disease. So the Italians just were like, oh, just eat more peas and just have more, nutrients where the US was we must add all of this into everything.

in these isolated vitamins to a food that might not naturally have it, then we're not able to predict what's coming in, right?

So when vitamins exist naturally in a food, body knows to release the necessary enzymes and chemicals to help process that vitamin. But if they're in this isolated source and then they've been added into our food again, our body might not be prepared to digest that. So yeah, maybe that is something that could lead to indigestion and not being able to process it the same. there's also a really interesting study that I talked about, a couple episodes on my podcast, with sheep. And when they added in. they gave them an infusion of phosphorus into their stomach at the same time that they were eating different flavored foods and they learned to crave the flavor food whenever they were getting that infusion of phosphorus. So I think this also shows us that if we're adding in all of these vitamins into our bread, we're gonna crave their bread for those vitamins in it versus whatever else we might need from bread when instead, like we should be craving peas that naturally have it. So no wonder we don't want to eat the fruits and vegetables anymore because we're getting all of these random vitamins from all of these enriched foods of all of our flowers and cereals and rice instead of getting them from their natural sources.

Isabella: I'm just laughing because now that I think about it, Italians do eat a lot of peas, and I don't like peas, so I'd always just wonder why they eating so many peas. But that makes a lot of sense. They'd eat this like pea soup and it looked just like really green and really gross. But

They love it. So I guess it worked to tell them to eat more pea.

Amber: And their body learns too. 'cause our body does have a very wise system of seeking out nutrition. So they probably learned, oh, I'm starting to crave peas because I'm deficient in this nutrient. So then they created all these dishes that soups and things that have the peas in it because their body learned, oh, this is where the nutrient is coming from.

And so then they naturally just started to crave that food more.

So are there any specific governmental policies or cultural norms that you think help maintain the integrity of the food system in Italy?

Isabella: Absolutely. This is one of my favorite topics. so when we think about food law in the us, we think about the FDA. and so when we think about Europe, we have to think about it as the European Union, not just Italy. 'cause Italy's part of the European Union, so they're governed by EU laws. So the European Union has the one main governing body is the European Commission.

The European Commission is like, think of our White House the European Commission is in Belgium, in Brussels. And what I'm gonna talk about now is ssa, which is the European Food Safety Authority. They're in Italy, so they're considered like our FDA, but they have no ability to make laws.

They cannot make any sort of law. The only thing SA can do is provide scientific opinions. So if the EU commissions like the White House comes to Epsa and says, Hey, we want you to evaluate the safety of this, pesticide residue on food, SA will gather all of the scientific. Evidence, they'll make a report and they'll send that back to the EU commission.

And the EU commission is what makes the laws, it's not like this in the US because the FDA has the power to make laws in legislations about our food. So I think the EU did it really smart where they made FSA as only to provide scientific information. So SSA has no bias. They have no company screaming at them saying, we need this pesticide allowed because it makes us more money.

They have none of that bias. SSA is strictly,run by people, with degrees like mine in food science, food safety. There's a lot of people there who have PhDs. really smart people. And maybe in the future I'd like to work for them because it's a really wonderful agency.

I'm thinking like separation of church and state, but that's not, it's separation of, you know, scientific opinion and legislation. So they cannot make any laws and then they send all their information to the EU commission. What's also different that kind of confuses me sometimes is the FDA is food and drug.

So our food and our pharmaceuticals, the laws are, it's governed by the exact same body, which doesn't make any sense to me because food and drugs are completely different. And I think that they have differing interests sometimes. I think sometimes what may benefit the pharmaceutical industry doesn't benefit the food industry and vice versa.

And so I don't think that they should be connected. I think that's why one of the reasons. A lot of additives and preservatives and things like that are allowed into our food is because of a lot of the bias inserted by different companies, various corporations. and that's not allowed in the EU food system.

So that's one of the things that has always I guess triggered me was the FDA and about how a lot of the foods that we eat here in the US are completely banned in Europe. and that's because the EU has one of the strictest and safest food systems in the world. What's also really interesting is that in EU food law, they have what's called the precautionary principle, and that's what they use to make their laws about food.

And I don't know it verbatim, but it's in the. Situation of scientific uncertainty. So if the scientific community is unsure about something, they will always stick to the health of the consumer. So if they cannot deem that a certain additive is harmful or not to people, they will ban it and they will not allow it into the food system.

Only when there is scientific certainty they can allow it. The US doesn't have this. So in the sense the scientific uncertainty, maybe there is science leaning one way towards something or the other. The FDA can still allow it into the food market.

Amber: That is fascinating and I reflects that, you know how in Europe, they give the power to the consumer and they care about their health, they wanna make sure it's the best for them, and it makes a lot of sense. And if you think about it. humans have eaten a variety of a lot of different foods for thousands and thousands of years and been okay. We didn't need all of these isolated additives that we've in the last 50 years to survive. We survived just fine. Yes, there was of course all these other diseases and things that also contributed to people dying earlier, but we were able to nourish our bodies properly. If we had an abundant access to a variety of different foods, we didn't need things added to it. So I think it makes a lot of sense to say, if we've created this new, interesting compound that we're gonna put in all of our food to a ingest, we're not hundred percent sure if it's gonna be okay or not, of course we'd wanna lean on the side of just banning it because. There's not gonna be really any benefit from that, aside from allowing a company to make more profits by using cheaper ingredients or higher flavored ingredients, versus just allowing people to eat things that we know are safe and healthy, like fruits, vegetables, meats, cheeses, breads that just exist and have already existed for thousands of years that we don't need to

you're really research about to see if they're safe.

Isabella: Yeah. My thought process going through my studies was always that the. European food law always sided with the consumer and us food law always sided with industry. That's always how I thought about it too. Another thing is, in Europe, in the, I think maybe 1970s, 1980s, there was a big outbreak of mad cow disease and people were getting really sick.

and so what happened was this happened in the uk and it was while the UK was still in the European Union, people were starting to not trust the food system. They had a lot of skepticism and they weren't trusting it so. That's why they created, the European Food Safety Authority.

That's why, their laws are so strict, was because they put consumer trust above all else. So I think another part of this conversation that I should mention is that when people are eating food, they don't feel guilty about it because they trust it. Like, for example, I would go and eat ice cream. Okay, ice cream is a sweet tree.

It's an indulgent, it's a dessert. But I wouldn't feel guilty about eating ice cream because I trusted the food was made with the highest quality. and, high regard for my health and wellbeing, I do the same here. I don't think about it that way. Maybe I have a bit more guilt coming into play because I don't really trust everything that I'm eating.

So I think that's also a big problem around the way we think about our food, is this lack of trust. I think that also has to do with our governmental bodies. The FDA is great. I'm not trying to hate on them. but I think that there's a lot of bias when it comes to the FDA versus the European Food Safety Authority.

Amber: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And one thing I wanted to point out too, as an interesting point that I thought of before this conversation how we have this like eating disorder in the US Orthorexia. Now I know I just put that in quotes, I probably shouldn't have. It is a real eating disorder, but I think. People sometimes look at this fear around food as a bad thing, but I don't think it's as bad as we imagined, because as you said, we can't trust this food the same way in the US as we could if we lived in a different country because the regulations involved are not always in our favor. So I think that says, When you look at Italians or people in Europe, when they can trust their food system, they do already value having the highest quality of food and really high nutrition. And so because of that, I think this obsession with eating healthy, is already built into their system as a value versus sometimes then when it comes to the US it becomes disordered because we have to be so stressed out about all the time about what's in our food and anxious about it, but within good reason too.

Like I think, that is necessary given where our food system has ended up. And of course there is a balance. We, if our life is being impacted with anxiety and fear, that is something we wanna work on and get support for. But I think some level of, food anxiety in our country is almost necessary to eat in the way that's healthy and how we wanna be eating.

Isabella: Yep. Absolutely. And so the way that I would eat in Italy is normal for their culture. But I eat the same way here in the US and my coworkers in France see me as some sort of like health nut. And I'm like, this is the way that I would eat in Italy. Like, I eat the same, you know, I eat that same structure that I mentioned before.

And I've been called bougie. I've been called,some sort of snob because I won't eat Burger King and KFC and stuff like that. So you just made me think about this. It's interesting the way in Italy that is part of their culture and lifestyle, but here it's not. So we're like,seen a bit differently.

Also, right now I'm living in rural Tennessee where it's very normal for people to eat, fast food every single day, things like that. So I'm seeing essentially as some sort of snob who wants to eat fruits and vegetables, and I'm like, this is normal. This is how we should be eating.

I'm in some sort of minority here, but in Italy I didn't think about it that way. I didn't think about it as this obsession to eat healthy. It was just the food that was there that I was eating that was part of the culture. So it's completely different and it's just, because of the fast food culture we have in the us it's easy, it's cheap, it's tasty, but people are essentially like, it's like an addiction.

It creates this dependency.

Amber: Mm-hmm. is fascinating to think about how. you're being healthy here, you're kinda like the weird one and the strict one, but if we would've eaten this way a hundred years ago, it wouldn't have been looked at that way. It's just because of the introduction of fast food and higher processed foods and all of these foods with additives that now it's seen that way because we have to be intentional about what we're choosing versus it just being the everyday way of life.

Isabella: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. There's like this lack of emphasis on eating whole foods. Like people would rather eat a potato chipped than a potato. They'd rather eat ketchup than a tomato. And so when I'm eating these whole foods instead of the processed ones, I'm seeing as weird. And I'm like, but that's the way the food was made.

A tomato is just tomato, There's no additives, there's no preservatives. Maybe yes, we can talk about pesticides and everything, but. there's just lack of emphasis on eating whole foods versus in Italy, that's their entire food culture is just the way the food was meant to be, the way it's meant to be eaten.

Amber: Mm-hmm. When you think about what Italy does right around food, I want you to tell us if there's any lessons that you think we should take away from, like what Italy gets, right? But then also if there's anything that you think that Italy gets wrong about the food system or that they could use improvements on themself, with eating.

Isabella: I think what they get right is this connection with the territory. and they have these specific laws to protect, gourmet Italian products. So if you ever go to the store and you go to like the gourmet cheese section, if you ever see this, it's like an orange and yellow label and sometimes it will say, PDO or PGI, and that means that product has been made in one geographical region in Europe, whether it's cheese from Spain or cheese from France or from Italy.

you can trust that label. because it's been made in one territory using one specific kind of, production method. they also have specifications for the breed of cow. You're going to use the type of food, you're going to feed the cow. So these certifications are really important for Italian farmers, to protect the tradition.

this has been a way to combat the copycat. So what I think they do right is protecting tradition, protecting culture, and whether these cheeses take months or years to make, it doesn't matter. They,value quality. Above all. when we were talking about, eating at the office, I think what they do right is using mealtime as a sacred time to talk with people.

even maybe have a little bit of wine and coffee and dessert. you have everything in that one meal that you need. Protein, carbs, dessert, coffee. You know, if you need the shot of liquor at the end, that's okay. But it's like, it's a ritual. It's so structured, but it's so delicious and it was one of my favorite things being there was sitting down and spending like two hours just eating and it was so good.

but they do things wrong too. I've mentioned the tobacco, the cigarettes, they have an insane smoking problem. It was so gross. Sometimes when I was there, everyone smelled like tobacco and then also an appetite suppressant. So instead of having a snack, having a piece of fruit, they may just go and have a cigarette, unfortunately.

And also the skinny culture being, being a bit fat phobic and being fat phobic to your face. They are very blunt with you. I think in the US people tend to talk behind your back a bit. but Italians, they just say it to your face, which, some may admire and some may not.

but I think they're doing a lot of things right and they're doing a lot of things wrong. What I respected so much being there was just the amount of trust that I had in the food I was eating. when I would. maybe not eat super healthy for me, not eating healthy, was going to eat a pizza.

which is, part of a big part of Italian cuisine. I didn't eat that pizza and go home and feel really guilty about the pizza, because I knew the next day I was gonna be eating fresh fruits and vegetables, even Italy. we've seen a rise of McDonald's, burger King, KFC, all these American fast food chains.

Italians eat them and they do like them, but they eat them maybe once every month, once every. Couple weeks, it's not an everyday thing. The quality of McDonald's is so much better in Italy compared to the US I only eat McDonald's in Italy 'cause I can't stand it here in the us. So another reason,the obesity rates have also been rising in Italy, I think is because due to the rise of American fast food coming into the country, which as someone who's grown up going there, it was so disappointing to see because they don't need it.

They have such good food that they don't need all these fast food chains. But Italians, they like it and I can see why they like it. But as an American, I'm like, no, you don't need this. Take it away.

Amber: Mm-hmm. I'm guessing they like it too, because I know sometimes. As we do in America, the fascination with the European culture. Sometimes in Europe there's this fascination with the American culture and kind of the idolization around that. And so it's kinda like, Ooh, we're getting the American stuff now. And that can contribute to it almost being like idolized of this fun thing, this like novelty that's coming in versus something that they truly want and value. But I would agree with you that I think, the introduction of a lot of these more, processed foods and the fast food change as well as the diet culture that has continued to increase over the years all around the world.

And like you said, being a very fat phobic society. In when people start dieting, then they also start binge eating, and people who diet 95% of the time end up at the same weight or higher than they were before because then their body is trying to protect them against that starvation that they essentially just put them through.

So I think those are a couple of reasons why, the moving away from their traditional cultures and foods can lead to obesity rates rising there and elsewhere in the world.

Isabella: They absolutely do like idolize American culture. Also, a lot of the media that Italians have grown up seeing has been, American movies. So a lot of people, would come up to me and they'd be, fascinated by this idea of the fraternity. 'cause they'd see it in a lot of movies and they don't have fraternities there.

So they idolize the American culture and they enjoy the food, but they also know that it's not good for them. And again, it's like an indulgent, they go once a month to eat a burger at McDonald's, but it's not an everyday thing. They know that the next day they're gonna be, eating food that their mother or grandmother has made.

I know people here who eat fast food every day and you know, Italians Would never dream of doing that. I think that they can also eat this kind of food in moderation, but the Italian brain, in my opinion, works that, every now and then they'll eat American food.

Or every now and then they'll eat, maybe sushi, but their go-to is always going to be their Italian food. They're always going to resort back to that. Versus I think here in the US we lack this, food culture. if you think of American food, maybe I don't like mac and cheese.

you think of stuff for Thanksgiving, but it's not so deeply rooted in history that we identify ourselves by our food. We really don't. but Italians do, they have such a big cultural identity with the food, with the way it's made in the regions that it's made. so I, I think we just lack a little bit of that food culture here and the being proud of it.

Amber: Absolutely. Well, Isabelle, this has been so fun today. I feel like we could talk for hours. You're so knowledgeable and so eloquent in all of the information you have to share. Are there any last minute thoughts or things that you wanted to share before we leave?

Isabella: I think one, there was one thing that I wanted to like touch on, is like a fun fact. it didn't really have much to do with the questions, but the Italian cuisine also ties a lot into the temperature that it is outside. so Americans rely a lot on air conditioning and heating. Italians don't. So when I was living in Italy, I had to,learn to live with no air conditioning and no heating.

So people are gonna rely on their food, especially in the winter to warm them. So the food in the winter was very hearty, very meaty, really heavy, really warm, something that was gonna warm you up. Then what I noticed in the summer I ate a lot less because it was really hot.

and so eating a heavy meal was just gonna make me even hotter. And in the summer I. Most of the food we ate was going to be cold, so we ate a lot of salads, just cheese crackers. We also ate a lot of, pasta salad. so people would rarely cook using their stove because it was going to make them so hot.

So another part of Italian culture is learning to adapt to whatever temperature is outside, and that's going to have an influence on the food that you're going to be eating. I think in the US we have that, in, in fall you wanna have a soup, or even in winter. but it's not as profound as in Italy because they completely.

Don't have, or they have ac, they just don't like to use it. They have heating sometimes they just don't like to use it. They're a bit stingy when it comes to that stuff. So I had to adapt my eating habit to the season. I think that's also, interesting also in terms of fruits and vegetables based on whatever season it was what I was eating.

in terms of, any sort of fresh produce.

Amber: Yeah, that's fascinating. And I think it goes along with what our bodies crave. Like we crave the heartier dense or meatier stuff in the winter and we don't really crave that so much as in the summer. And how that it also happens to go in line with what produce there is at the time. And I don't really think it's that ironic.

I think our bodies know this, and have this innate wisdom too, that. many millennia of having seasonal produce as how our bodies work. We crave these things, and then of course, the actual heat and temperature is really interesting because that is a big factor as well.

Isabella: So that was just one little fun fact.

Amber: Yeah. thank you so much for coming on today. It was so much fun having you.

Isabella: Yes, thank you for having me. It was so much fun. I could talk about it for hours.

Amber: Yes. All right. I'll talk to everyone next week. Bye.